Tag Archives: Allah

Does Quran really say that Earth was created before the heavens?

Brother Dahen, I first appreciate your willingness to share some of the doubts that you have about Islam. Now let me look into your claim and see whether it is justified or not. You said,

“Read attentively, about the creation of earth and heavens; in 2:29, he’s saying: made earth then heavens. But in 79:30: made heavens then earth. Is’nt that contradiction?!”

According to you, in 2:29 of the noble Quran, Allah says that he made Earth first and THEN he made the Heavens. Is this really true? Lets see: –

“: He it is Who created for you all that is on earth. Then He Istawa (rose over) towards the heaven and made them seven heavens and He is the All-Knower of everything.– The Noble Quran 2:29 (Muhsin Khan)

These are the points to be noted here: –

1. Nowhere does Allah say here that he made Earth first and then he made heaven. He merely says that he made all that is on earth and then he turned to heaven that was already created. If Allah had really created heaven AFTER he created the earth then why would he sayThen He Istawa (rose over) towards the heaven”? After the creation of earth, how can he Istawa (rise over) towards the heaven when he hasn’t created it yet in the first place. The only possible explanation for this is that Heaven and Earth were already created.

Does this verse say Allah created the Earth? No! This verse talks only about the “things on earth” and not earth itself!

2. This verse doesn’t even refer to the creation of the earth. Does Allah say that he created earth in this verse? Read again. This verse only says that Allah created “all that is on earth”. Meaning, Earth was ALREADY CREATED by Allah and in this verse Allah is talking only about the THINGS PRESENT ON EARTH AND NOT EARTH ITSELF. So your allegation that the Quran says that God created Earth first and then Heaven is totally false and does not hold any ground because this verse doesn’t talk about Allah creating the Earth at all!

This verse speaks only about the division of heaven and not about its creation

3. Similarly, where does this verse say that Allah created heavens? Just where? This verse only talks about Allah dividing the heaven THAT WAS ALREADY CREATED into SEVEN PARTS. Brother Dahen, there is a difference between “Division” and “creation”. You cannot “divide” a thing unless it is already “created. So if Allah has to divide the heaven into seven parts then he must have already created it. That’s common sense. So your allegation that the Quran says that God created Earth first and then Heaven is totally false and does not hold any ground because this verse doesn’t talk about Allah creating the Heaven at all! Probably you may have better luck with other alleged contradictions that you have. Let’s see. Give them all to me. Don’t miss out even one of them because I swear by Allah, that I will refute each and every one of them with justice, fairness, good reason and logic.

The Real meaning of this verse: –

Allah doesn’t talk about creation of heaven or earth in this verse at all. He merely talks about creation of the things present on/in Earth when he says “all that is on earth”. You know, in the near future this world may have flying cars. So you may ask, if Allah created all things on earth according to this verse then how come we don’t have flying cars now. Dear friend, to the best of my little knowledge, by “all that is on earth” Allah actually means “all basic elements” present on earth.

Then, when Allah says, Then He Istawa (rose over) towards the heaven and made them seven heavens it means that he divided a single heaven into seven parts. Here Allah is referring to the seven different layers of atmosphere that we all know are : –

1. Troposphere

 

2. Stratosphere

3. Ozone layer

4. Mesosphere

5. Thermosphere

6. Ionosphere

7. Exosphere

The grand finale – This verse may mean that Allah made all things on earth and THEN divided the heaven into seven parts; still it is absolutely 100 % correct. This is because the atmosphere around the earth was formed AFTER earth was created.

Long long ago, earth was a barren, dead planet with no atmosphere. Then as time passed by, the gases present within the earth rose up and escaped the earth’s surface only to be held back by earth’s gravitational force in the empty space surrounding the earth. This was how atmosphere was formed. So there you go, either way the verse 2:29 of the holy Quran is a scientific wonder. This is a scientific miracle to the eye of any decent human because how on earth could a desert nomad like Mohammad (peace on him) know that the sky above him (atmosphere) is divided into seven parts and that it was made AFTER earth was made. This is in fact a double miracle in a single verse.

A Wonderful Encounter with A christian Missionary in an Islamic Chat Room

Scientifically Proving That Quran Is Word Of God and responses from our non – Muslim Brethren:

1. First Proof – Life From Water in the Quran

2. Second Proof – Big Bang Theory in the Quran

3. Third Proof – Pairs in Plants in the Quran

4. Fourth Proof – Divisibility of Atom in the Quran

5. Fifth Proof – Creation of the Universe from Smoke in the Quran

6. Sixth Proof – Iron from Outer Space in the Quran


1.1 INTRODUCTION: –

………………………………………………………………………………

In the name of ALLAH,
Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Dear Christian and Muslim brethern,
As u all are aware we are now in the holy month of Ramadan. Strangely though, i dont understand why, i find that the christian and jew traffic in islamic chat rooms is atleast 10 times more during this holy month. The world seems to be not satisfied with demeaning, defaming and misinterpreting us. Alas! they dont seem to spare us even in our own chat rooms. So i decided to do something about it.

I found a christian (of course in an islamic chat room!) trying to sheep innocent muslims. We had long chats about christianity, the bible, jesus (peace be on him) and so on. Notice that there is no mention about discussing Quran or muhammad (peace be on him) etc, the person doesnt consider discussing these worth his time. Anyway, i wanted the world to judge between us as to who is fair in the chat. also i desire to expose some of the typical christian onslaughts on muslims and the way to counter them. So that was the reason for me to create this blog. I hope u all post ur sincere and thoughtful comments. I want you all to know that i love my Christian brethern as much as i love myself or my muslim brethern. As long as they are fair and just, i love em all.

I have indexed the blog so that you read our conversations in the correct chronological order.
Go in this order 1.1 , 2.1 , 2.2 …… 3.1 , 3.2 ……. etc. And dont forget to drop in your comments. ill be posting them to him too.

Anyway this is my yahoo messenger id ‘mansoormuhammed12’.  This is the christian’s id ‘amen.hallelu_jah’.

4.2 Third Day The Christain Response

CONTINUING WITH THE MISSIONARY: –


amen.hallelu_jah (10:56:42 PM): so should I also start pasteing now ?
mansoormuhammed12 (10:57:20 PM): ya u should if u did prior preparation like me
mansoormuhammed12 (10:57:33 PM): i gave u 4 hours of time ahead of me
mansoormuhammed12 (10:57:45 PM): u should be doing more pasting than me
mansoormuhammed12 (10:57:53 PM): ok read
mansoormuhammed12 (10:57:56 PM): then type
amen.hallelu_jah (10:58:01 PM): type what ?
mansoormuhammed12 (10:58:16 PM): u read first
To christian missionaries – is this how you train preachers all with your sophisticated sunday classess? The guy doesnt even care to read my reply and is more bothered about me pasting my responses from notepad. and he asks ”type what?” when the world is expecting a response from him!
amen.hallelu_jah (10:58:24 PM): I believe in bible, not in quran
mansoormuhammed12 (10:58:31 PM): ok
mansoormuhammed12 (10:58:44 PM): so wat?. u read wat i typed
amen.hallelu_jah (10:59:02 PM): so quran is totally meaningless to me, anything it says, hav no value for me at all
mansoormuhammed12 (10:59:45 PM): dont be myopic ( short sighted) i pasted some 10 verses of bible and only one from quran
mansoormuhammed12 (10:59:51 PM): u can skip that one
mansoormuhammed12 (10:59:59 PM): i dont mind
amen.hallelu_jah (11:00:17 PM): so now I should paste bible here ?

To Bloggers – O my muslim brethern! do you now see how easy it is to defend our faith and how difficult it is for the christians to defend thiers? it has got nothing to do with wits, intelligence or presence of mind. Thanks to Allah for giving us such a mighty book – the Quran! it will never never put us down. it can defend itself from ANY allegation that the missionaries throw at it. but the man made bible stumbles and falls at almost every page several times. you know what, the bible is divided into three main parts: –
1. verses, statements and teachings
2. verses, statements and teachings that mean the exact opposite to the above
3. some other censored topics which ill ignore for aesthetic purposes of this blog. but i will tell them if provoked by him or any other christian.
Anyway read on..
amen.hallelu_jah (11:00:17 PM): so now I should paste bible here ?
mansoormuhammed12 (11:00:54 PM): u read first wat i typed in notepad and pasted. then u paste ill read. even if it is Alice in wonderland
amen.hallelu_jah (11:01:20 PM): well, I allrady said that you do not know at all what biblical term “Son of God” means
amen.hallelu_jah (11:01:30 PM): so questions about that are useless
amen.hallelu_jah (11:01:39 PM): as you do not even know what that means
mansoormuhammed12 (11:02:09 PM): what now u r afraid to even read what i typed? so sad.
amen.hallelu_jah (11:02:26 PM): I read, you refer in title “Son of God”
mansoormuhammed12 (11:02:44 PM): u can tell me what son of god means. thats what i asked u yesterday for almost 2 hrs and u didnt . remember?
amen.hallelu_jah (11:02:44 PM): so tell me then , in what way title “Son of God” is used in bible ?
amen.hallelu_jah (11:02:55 PM): ahh, ok
amen.hallelu_jah (11:03:09 PM): “SOn of God” is used various ways in bible
amen.hallelu_jah (11:03:32 PM): most often it refers as human’s obidience to GOd
mansoormuhammed12 (11:03:32 PM): go on
mansoormuhammed12 (11:03:37 PM): ok
mansoormuhammed12 (11:03:40 PM): then
mansoormuhammed12 (11:04:25 PM): but there is no point in continuing this conversation if u havent read what i typed before
amen.hallelu_jah (11:04:30 PM): then its used for Christ as eternal word
amen.hallelu_jah (11:04:52 PM): and then one true SOn of God as human who fullfilled law 100 % is Jesus
amen.hallelu_jah (11:05:23 PM): and then it is used as those who are adopted as “children of GOd” in Jesus
mansoormuhammed12 (11:06:33 PM): “and then one true SOn of God as human who fullfilled law 100 % is Jesus” whats this. pray enlighten
amen.hallelu_jah (11:06:49 PM): sorry what ?
mansoormuhammed12 (11:07:13 PM): tell me more
mansoormuhammed12 (11:07:17 PM): about that
amen.hallelu_jah (11:07:50 PM): well, as “Son of God” rerfers in obidience to God, Jesus is only one who have been 100 % obidient to God
amen.hallelu_jah (11:08:26 PM): that’s why Jesus is only true “Son of God”, others are just types of that
To bloggers- my younger brother is 100% obedient to my mom but iam 90% obeidient. so does this mean that only he is TRUE ORIGINAL son and iam a FAKE or DUPLICATE or “Just types of that” son to my mom? sorry folks. for kindegarten replies i have to give kinergarten respones. hope u all are having a good laugh. i dont have the yahoo messenger smiley or else i wud have put it here. Anyway my mom says that we both are her original and true sons no matter what the christian says.
amen.hallelu_jah (11:09:18 PM): counter wise all humans who are dead in their sins in fallen world are not “Sons of God” but sons of one who they obey, satan
amen.hallelu_jah (11:10:09 PM): John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
amen.hallelu_jah (11:12:11 PM): Matthew 13:38 The field is the world, and the good seed is the children of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one,
mansoormuhammed12 (11:18:06 PM): so jesus was sinnless? ok fine. so what ? we muslims believe that muhammad (peace on both) was also sinnless. so even i can claim that muhammad was the son of god but i wont. u know why? becoz i am wise and i know that u dont belive in the quran. so such statements are of no value to u. similarly u intelligent fellow must know that i dont believe in the present bible. so those statements are useless. so u see, ur explaination is meaningless. and false. anyway according to john 20:17 even iam son of God
amen.hallelu_jah (11:19:06 PM): well, as you finally realized our situation, then its rather meaningless to talk as our faiths do not mean anything to eachother
mansoormuhammed12 (11:21:10 PM): so lets talk about the bible only. and forget about the quran. also let us forget the theories of church such as that of ‘only’ son of God and 100% etc etc. lets stick to the scriptures. if i go by the bible it crystal clear to any sane being that jesus is not actual son.
mansoormuhammed12 (11:21:23 PM): so ur turn. disprove me from the bible
mansoormuhammed12 (11:21:31 PM): by giving proof
mansoormuhammed12 (11:22:05 PM): also realize that if u are successful in giving proof then ur are also contradicting the above mentioned biblical verses
mansoormuhammed12 (11:22:08 PM): so goon
mansoormuhammed12 (11:22:14 PM): *go on
amen.hallelu_jah (11:22:19 PM): about what ??
mansoormuhammed12 (11:23:40 PM): u want me to repeat the whole story? ok. prove to me that jesus is the actual son of god and all others are figurative sons by giving proof from the bible. i repeat i need proofs from the bible not theories from ur church
[bloggers wait and watch, the guy is about about to prove a contradiction in the bible]

5.5 – Fourth Day – The Best Part.

CONTINUING WITH THE MISSIONARY: –

mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:24:07 AM): i sure do brother. lets get calm ok?
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:24:13 AM): i ll calm down first
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:24:19 AM): and now u calm down
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:24:39 AM): and tell me were u that other person?
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:25:00 AM): who contacted me? i wud appreciate if it
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 12:25:14 AM): I don’t know any other persons..
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:25:14 AM): was u or someone who u know
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:25:31 AM): wait ill give his id
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 12:25:51 AM): you gave it allready, i think
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 12:26:00 AM): so what about it ?
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:26:17 AM): something like dominus.christus etc?
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 12:26:33 AM): is He Christian ?
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:26:51 AM): ya he is. a wonderful person.
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:27:04 AM): he gave me a link to a christian software
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:27:21 AM): ill paste here
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:28:53 AM): http://www.e-sword.net/
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:29:41 AM): he says that it has almost features to download almost all versions of bible in english
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 12:29:52 AM): nice
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:30:34 AM): ya
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:31:19 AM): so i do want to make u a muslim ok just like how u want to make me a christian. its a mutual feeling that we have and its a gud thing
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:31:47 AM): afterall though sometimes things get ugly. ultimately we want to save each other. isnt it?
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 12:32:05 AM): well, actually, i cannot make you Christian, only God in His grace can you saving faith in Jesus Chirst
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:32:12 AM): ur right
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:32:22 AM): thats true absolutely
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:33:00 AM): but we have to be the means. for our sakes. and for the beautiful feeling of love that God has put in our hearts

To Bloggers – he says “only God in His grace can you saving faith in Jesus Christ”. and i said “ur right”. i still do. In fact we don’t need the Christians to make us have faith in Jesus (peace), we already do by that by the orders of Muhammad (peace) and Allah. We are taught to believe that any Muslim who doesn’t have faith even in one of the prophets will be damned.

Iam trying to strke a neutral cord here. but the stiff necked christian doesn’t seem to understand.  He continues to have his biased belief that all non Christians will be damned as if he has done some great research in non christian faiths and had come to that conclusion. read on…

amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 12:33:03 AM): well, if you know that is true, then you would know you are damned
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 12:33:22 AM): or you mean islamic “allah” does same ?
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:33:32 AM): though soemetimes the feeling gets overshadowed by satan
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 12:33:44 AM): see, in discussion you need to me very clear what you mean
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:33:51 AM): anyway we have to try. thats what i want to say
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 12:34:09 AM): so are you saying that only islamic “allah” can make me a muslim ?
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:34:09 AM): iam listening go on
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:35:28 AM): no no brother. there is nothing like islamic ‘Allah’ or Christian ‘Father’ . we know who we are talking about. we are not jews bro to claim God for thier own. we are christians and muslims where God is universal
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:35:36 AM): and we have to be happy abou it
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:35:42 AM): *about
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 12:36:00 AM): sorry, I cannot blasheme Holy God by mixing it anyway with islamic “allah”..

To bloggers – Alas! such is the character of these missionaries!

amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 12:36:31 AM): so if you want to discuss, then you need to understand that when I speak about islam, i speak about islamic god, islamic “allah”
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 12:36:59 AM): ofcourse if you feel offended by that, then you can ofcourse refuse to discuss, and I understand that
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:39:29 AM): see ? this is why i find it difficult to preach islam to u bro. u are so obsessed with christianity that u dont even lend a sleepy ear to other faiths. we are not like that. atleast iam not. i read ur books, i read the books of hindus and my own. thats how fair iam. and yes i thank u for offering me an option to point it out to you when i get offended. i really appreciate that
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 12:39:57 AM): well, I have read quran and hadiths….
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:40:20 AM): mashallah! (meaning paise be God!).
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:40:27 AM): am happy about that
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:40:48 AM): go on.
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 12:41:16 AM): so point is not that I am ignorant, its just that God have commanded that He is not mixed with any falsehood
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:41:28 AM): i agree
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:41:33 AM): continue
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 12:42:02 AM): continue what ? I just explained why I speak about islamic “allah”
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 12:42:12 AM): that’s was my point
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:45:53 AM): ok. i understand i think. but for the sake of scholarly interest i want to tell u that ‘ALLAH’ in arabic means ‘GOD’ thats all. even christian arabs know God by no other name but Allah. so u really dont have to worry with mixing falsities etc. ALLAH means just GOD. thats all. like how we the word GOD in english, similarly we the word ALLAH for that super power. the matter is as simple as that
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:45:55 AM): bro
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 12:46:34 AM): orginally allah was name of ilah
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:46:41 AM): ya ur right
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:46:44 AM): i think
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 12:46:55 AM): so orginally its not word meaning God
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 12:47:16 AM): when language developed now adays Allah means just GOd
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:47:39 AM): but that was hebrew? or some other language isnt it? here we are talking about Arabic
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 12:47:53 AM): but when arabic Christians speak about Allah they mean God, not any name of God
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:48:04 AM): so in arabic originally or whatever it was and is and will be Allah
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 12:48:19 AM): so there is no name allah of God
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 12:48:35 AM): its just one prove that islamic “god” is not God of Bible

To bloggers – seriously i myself haven’t understood what he is trying to say.  Like most missionaries, he always takes great interest in arguing over insignificant things like the above. but when it comes to some real things like ‘sonship’ or ‘godship’ of jesus (peace), they take 2 days of bush beating to answer and still don’t clear up the air.

Behold! my bloggers, i present you the best part of the conversation – i call it -“The Chickening

mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:48:51 AM): ok
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:49:49 AM): hey bro what time is it now over there in finland?
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:50:22 AM): u there?
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 12:52:07 AM): 22.22
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:52:49 AM): ok
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:55:19 AM): are u sure u do not know this person dominus_iesus.christus ? coz if u really dont know then i think my id is being tracked. feels gud
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 12:55:33 AM): anyway
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 12:55:56 AM): no, I do not know Him
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 1:41:59 AM): hey i lost the starting part of todays conversation. the first few lines that u said before i started replying. cud u paste it here
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 1:42:29 AM): some problem with my system. archives keep getting deleted
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 1:42:40 AM): well, I am sorry
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 1:44:22 AM): dont be so rude. i thought we were getting along quite well. all iam asking is a few lines maybe less than 10. its for the blog. well if u dont give me then i will be forced to reconstruct from my memory
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 1:44:27 AM): of what u said
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 1:44:29 AM): look, i thought you do not want discuss this time ?
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 1:44:43 AM): ya but i have to catalogue first
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 1:44:43 AM): I am discussing others here
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 1:44:51 AM): system problems remember?
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 1:44:54 AM): so bye for now
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 1:48:07 AM): seriously dude why are u so scared! fine then bye. gud for me. i was only trying to be fare. ill reconstruct it myself. dont blame me later that i cheated. anyway a damper for you – i have all the rest of our conversations. iam generally well prepared for such unforseen things. thanks to notepad from microsoft.
mansoor muhammed (9/28/2008 1:48:13 AM): so bye

To bloggers- Did you see that? did u just see that? its so exhiliarating to see them panicking. i am sure he had’nt imagined that i wud go this far in conversating with him. when i met him online for the first time in islam chat room he wud have thought of talking some sweet words of jesus saving or redeeming or getting killed for our sins etc etc and getting away with it. Alas! no why alas? gud for me. cheers! cheers to you all and cheers to me. this is the moment of celebration. and cheers to Allah for giving this day to me.

and oh one more thing. to cover up his evident panick act orwhatever he seem to lie that he doesnt keep the archive files: –

amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 2:43:17 AM): so you keep logs ?
amen.hallelu_jah (9/28/2008 2:43:27 AM): well, I do not keep logs

in the page 5.2 his archives seem to be perfectly fine and well maintained.  This is what he had said back then : –

“amen.hallelu_jah (9/26/2008 2:20:19 PM): well, its good to know what whole world sees what are islamic manners in discussion: (26.9.2008 13:19:51) mansoor muhammed: u know what, ur so dumb.”

Its not surprizing to know that missionaries can stoop to lying. Infact this lie (Allah knows best) is nothing compared to the biggest lie on earth that they say: – That jesus (peace) is the actual son of God. Any way u read on and comment on….