Monday, 29 dec 2009.
Background – Israel just pounded Gaza with missiles and air strikes killing at least 300 people ( over a 1000 as of jan 20th 2009) injuring more than 2000, mostly civilians. The densely populated area of Gaza with a population of around 1.1 million people was ravaged by this state sponsored terrorism by Israel which it claims was because of the alleged breaking of a peace treaty by Hamas.
Whether Hamas broke the treaty or not is controversial. But even if it did brake the treaty, was Israel justified in killing hundreds of civilians and injuring thousands and destroying property worth millions? Lets find out
This is what pope Benedict said: –
“The native land of Jesus cannot continue to be witness to so much bloodshed, repeating itself without end. I implore an end to that violence, which must be condemned in every manifestation and for a renewal of the truce in the Gaza Strip.”
The following is a conversation that i had with a christian. These are her responses to Israeli killings: –
Before you plunge into the conversation, take a quick look at the pictures Shahrzad posted on her blog recently …
Just keep these things in mind while u read the conversation: –
1. Breaking of the peace treaty by Hamas is controversial. We only have Israels words and nothing else.
2. Israel bombarded civilians killing over 1000 and injuring over 2000 people. This is just the beginning. The figure may go up in the coming days.
3. Even if Hamas did break the treaty was the proportion of the violence by Israel justified?
4. What did the Palestinian civilians who were killed by Israel do to earn such a fate?
5. Lastly, The bible goes for “eye for an eye” concept right? well going by this, was it right from Israel’s part to kill 1000 people and injure 2000 more while the Israeli casualty is not even close to 20?
So lets see what the christian thinks. I havent edited anything. Its all uncensored. Even silly spelling mistakes are lesft untouched, though they are corrected separately in brackets and green font. Green font is used for narration purpose in between.: –
mansoormuhammed12 (7:13:13 PM): hello sis. long time no see. belated merry christmas. hope u are doing fine
mansoormuhammed12 (9:39:28 PM): [This is a mass instant message] The terrorist oppression forces in the occupied territories have again unleashed genocide upon the innocent men, women, childrens and infants of Palestine since yesterday. Today the number of people killed in this wholesale slaughter has exceeded 300, while over a 1000 people have been severely injured. The zionist oppressors have increased their terrorist activities giving a whole new definition to the word holocaust. It is incumbent upon all people of this world who have any sense of justice to condemn this bloody massacre in their hearts, minds and words. And it is incumbent upon all the sincere people of the world to take action to force these zionist terrorists in halting their bloodshed of innocent people.
[the above was a mass message that i received from a good friend of mine and which i sent to all people on my messenger list. oleery1 happened to be one of them]
oleery1 (12:38:02 AM): maybe the answer is not to fire missiles at Israel, or maybe don’t start what you can’t finish,? gee, that would be a novel idea 😕
mansoormuhammed12 (12:39:33 AM): so its ok if israeli tanks ravage palestinian homes while its not for a palestinian kid to throw stnes at them for taking away his parents life is it sis?
mansoormuhammed12 (12:39:45 AM): *stones
mansoormuhammed12 (12:39:56 AM): *life
oleery1 (12:40:08 AM): missiles, missiles, :-??
oleery1 (12:40:45 AM): missiles are not stones and shoes 😐
mansoormuhammed12 (12:41:05 AM): so if israel destroys palestinian women and children if hamas fired missiles?
mansoormuhammed12 (12:41:15 AM): thats ok is it?
mansoormuhammed12 (12:41:53 AM): i am ashamed that u are even justifying this act
oleery1 (12:42:01 AM): self defense, right, if someone fires missiles, is it not expected, to defend oneself, and nation ?
mansoormuhammed12 (12:42:11 AM): killing women and childern?
mansoormuhammed12 (12:42:17 AM): thats self d3efence?
mansoormuhammed12 (12:42:32 AM): cant u even see the disproportionate use of force here?
oleery1 (12:42:38 AM): killing anyone is a sin and murder, against the 10 commandments,
mansoormuhammed12 (12:42:54 AM): so u must condemn israel too
mansoormuhammed12 (12:43:00 AM): and not just hamas
mansoormuhammed12 (12:43:05 AM): thats only being fare (fair)
mansoormuhammed12 (12:43:13 AM): do u condem israel?
mansoormuhammed12 (12:43:16 AM): do u?
mansoormuhammed12 (12:43:20 AM): yes or no?
oleery1 (12:43:37 AM): who broke the peace treaty and fired the first missiles, breaking this treaty ???:-?
[Dear bloggers, we only have Israel’s words and nothing more on this. ]
mansoormuhammed12 (12:43:50 AM): so its ok to kill women and chidren?
mansoormuhammed12 (12:43:56 AM): it may or may not be hamas
mansoormuhammed12 (12:44:04 AM): but is it ok to kill ci=vilians?
mansoormuhammed12 (12:44:24 AM): its ok to kill civilians is it. since when?
mansoormuhammed12 (12:44:36 AM): i regret what hamas did greatfully (gracefully)
oleery1 (12:44:42 AM): are hamas extremists ?
mansoormuhammed12 (12:44:43 AM): but israel?
mansoormuhammed12 (12:44:50 AM): i dont know and i dont care
mansoormuhammed12 (12:45:23 AM): its such a shame that even now u try to justify isreal where a simple statement of regret would suffice
mansoormuhammed12 (12:45:36 AM): this is the hight of madness
mansoormuhammed12 (12:45:46 AM): which the world hsas bred
mansoormuhammed12 (12:45:51 AM): and we talk of love and peace
mansoormuhammed12 (12:45:57 AM): we all are hypocrites
oleery1 (12:47:25 AM): but you can’t be the aggressor, and then cry when you get your ass kicked, hamas knows what weapons israel possess, why fire those first missiles, should israel, just say, oh that’s ok, give me a break
mansoormuhammed12 (12:47:44 AM): so its ok to kill women and children is it?
oleery1 (12:48:01 AM): i didn’t say that,
oleery1 (12:48:47 AM): for every action there is a reaction, israel reacted towards agression against them
mansoormuhammed12 (12:49:01 AM): but u do have no regret for their deaths. its so painfully clear. if u are hear (here) to share the pain then i welcome you. but if u are not then go enjoy ur christmas instead of putting salt on our wounds
mansoormuhammed12 (12:49:21 AM): is the reaction eqaul in proportion to the action?
mansoormuhammed12 (12:49:28 AM): cant u people even see that?
mansoormuhammed12 (12:49:33 AM): hamas may be mad
mansoormuhammed12 (12:49:40 AM): but why punish innocents?
mansoormuhammed12 (12:49:58 AM): you are all so cruel in ur judgements!!!!!!!!!!1
mansoormuhammed12 (12:50:10 AM): may God be so fare (fair) with u all to (too).
mansoormuhammed12 (12:50:16 AM): *fair
oleery1 (12:50:29 AM): hamas doesn’t regard who are innocent when they fire missiles,
mansoormuhammed12 (12:51:03 AM): les talk about israel. hamas did not kill those people
mansoormuhammed12 (12:51:24 AM): is the act of israel right?
mansoormuhammed12 (12:51:27 AM): is it?
mansoormuhammed12 (12:51:41 AM): with all ur christian consiousness ans3wer this
mansoormuhammed12 (12:51:49 AM): was isreal right?
oleery1 (12:52:10 AM): the middle eastern countries won’t even back the palistinians, only lip service, actions speak louder than words, our mouths can say anything
mansoormuhammed12 (12:52:26 AM): thats because the west has crippled them.
mansoormuhammed12 (12:52:40 AM): u are going everywhere in this talk except isreal
mansoormuhammed12 (12:52:45 AM): lets stick to isreal
mansoormuhammed12 (12:52:52 AM): was israel right?
oleery1 (12:53:38 AM): israelis have been part of the middle east for thousands of years, they fought for israel, they won israel, and it is the strongest nation in the mid east,
mansoormuhammed12 (12:53:53 AM): so its ok what they did recently?
mansoormuhammed12 (12:53:58 AM): ohh oh i forgot
mansoormuhammed12 (12:54:14 AM): sorry. so if someone is strong they can do whatever they want is it?
mansoormuhammed12 (12:54:19 AM): sound pretty good
mansoormuhammed12 (12:54:22 AM): and noble
oleery1 (12:54:59 AM): mohamed your prophet wared and won territory, why can’t the jews do this
[At this point i would like draw your attentions to something very fascinating. The true face of terrorism. I dare and openly challenge any christian out there to refute this article
mansoormuhammed12 (12:56:04 AM): ohh ohnh i see… this comes down to religion now. i totally forgot that its totally ok to slaughter innocent women and children in the bible. i have got a hundred verses which i wud love to hare (share) with u
mansoormuhammed12 (12:56:07 AM): regarding this
mansoormuhammed12 (12:56:11 AM): right now
oleery1 (12:56:28 AM): throughout history, this happens throughout the world, wars, for land, and religion and politics,
mansoormuhammed12 (12:57:12 AM): we wre dumb back then. we didnt have the UN to guide us. we wrerall fools. so this is how u justify the act of israel?
oleery1 (12:57:18 AM): well your talking old testament, before Our Lord Jesus Christ was sacrifficed
[how hypocritic! so old testament can have any crap verse that can pt even satan to shame in its evilness and get away with it? Wasnt the God of old testament the same as their “Lord and God” Jesus (with all respects to him)?
mansoormuhammed12 (12:57:43 AM): i ll share verses of new testament too after we finish with the old
mansoormuhammed12 (12:58:01 AM): Gods book is Gods bok (book) after all whether it is new or old testamnet
mansoormuhammed12 (12:58:03 AM): doesnt matter
oleery1 (12:58:19 AM): Jesus brought a new and everlasting covenant between God and mankind ,
mansoormuhammed12 (12:58:31 AM): ok. we are going off topic
mansoormuhammed12 (12:58:37 AM): lets stick to israel
mansoormuhammed12 (12:58:43 AM): was israel right?
mansoormuhammed12 (12:58:53 AM): what wud jesus(peace) say?
mansoormuhammed12 (12:58:57 AM): about israel
mansoormuhammed12 (12:59:12 AM): Isreals act*
oleery1 (12:59:30 AM): oh yes, old testament is the jewish books, the new testament is Jesus Christ’s life and teachings , death and resurrection ,,only christians have new and old testament in the bible
[ again!, This is how the christian tries to get away when cornered! by denouncing a major lions share of their own Bible!)
mansoormuhammed12 (12:59:44 AM): off topic again
mansoormuhammed12 (12:59:50 AM): lets stick to israel
mansoormuhammed12 (1:00:17 AM): was isarel right? look how diificult it is for u westerners to gracefully accept ur mistakes
oleery1 (1:01:56 AM): you know when Russia and China, and the middle east join forces and attack Israel, Jesus Christ will be here, its been prophecised about, Jesus will come and stop this, and His Kingdom will be Israel ,………its all in the bible, its going to happen in our lifetime, the time is drawing near
mansoormuhammed12 (1:02:57 AM): ohh heck! i too believe in his second coming. but was isaeal right? with all ur christianness answer this
oleery1 (1:03:06 AM): Jesus is coming !!!! Halelujah !!!!!!!!!!
mansoormuhammed12 (1:03:19 AM): thats true. its nothing new there
mansoormuhammed12 (1:03:22 AM): we all know that
mansoormuhammed12 (1:03:28 AM): but was isreal right?
oleery1 (1:04:22 AM): anyone who hurts an innocent little one, would just as soon tie a mill stone around his neck and cast himself into the ocean, were what Jesus ‘s words are
oleery1 (1:05:02 AM): every human being will pay for their sins ,………….
mansoormuhammed12 (1:05:58 AM): i know his words better than u know sis. how many times have u read the bible? 10? 15?20? i have read it more times than u can even imagine. tell me ur opinion. i want to tknow how far ur hatred to muslims goes though i have none to you. was israel right?
oleery1 (1:06:40 AM): Israel acted upon aggression agains it
mansoormuhammed12 (1:06:58 AM): thanks. atleast u came up with this.
oleery1 (1:07:18 AM): Israel didn’t break the peace treaty, ……….a man is only as good as his word
mansoormuhammed12 (1:07:20 AM): but not good enough
mansoormuhammed12 (1:07:50 AM): so its ok to kill innocent civilians with such remarkable accuracy?
mansoormuhammed12 (1:08:09 AM): which hamas fool was hidden in the open football field?
oleery1 (1:08:17 AM): are you saying that hamas has killed no innocents,?
mansoormuhammed12 (1:08:34 AM): i alreday (alresdy) said gracefully that i regret wht hamas did
mansoormuhammed12 (1:09:04 AM): but you, with all ur church taught fake message of peace and love refuse to point finger at israel?
mansoormuhammed12 (1:09:12 AM): not good at all
mansoormuhammed12 (1:09:27 AM): doesnt go well with the image of church in my heart
oleery1 (1:09:34 AM): and now you name call 😐
mansoormuhammed12 (1:10:36 AM): when you have no regret in pouring salt on my wounds the least that i can do is this, when u dont have even one bit of regret for what happened then i am not name calling, i am telling truth
oleery1 (1:11:36 AM): it may be your truth, but just because you believe its true, doesn’t neccessarily make it true, no matter how hard and how much you believe it :-??
mansoormuhammed12 (1:12:12 AM): u are trying to take me everywhere in ur talk except israel.
mansoormuhammed12 (1:12:24 AM): thats not starge (strange) at all
mansoormuhammed12 (1:12:31 AM): was israel right?
[read my Conversation with a christian missionary and see how similar the misionarie’s behaviour was. He took almost a whole week to answer my question “is Jesus God”. I screamed “o hell! just tell yes or no and we can go on with the discussion.” But no! he had to take a whole week of coaxing.]
oleery1 (1:12:43 AM): i think my stance on israel, is pretty self evident :-??
mansoormuhammed12 (1:13:36 AM): i wanted a simple yes or no answer. if u cant give that for a thing thats so plain as the deaths of hundreds of people then there something seriously wrong with your judgment
oleery1 (1:14:16 AM): they fought for the land, they won it, they made it a thriving nation, and you don’t like it, even though its how your prophet conqured,
[These christians who are taught to hate the prophet mohammad (peace) more than they hate even osama bin laden are so sure about the islamic terrorism that they forget that the true face of terrorism is their own Bible! I once again dare any christian to refute this article
mansoormuhammed12 (1:15:42 AM): ok sis. thanks for letting me know your wonderful and noble views. they are so inspiring and peaceful and noble and so christian. this is what i am going to do. i am going to post this conversation of ours without any editing in my blog. let all people see how peaceful and caring the west is.
mansoormuhammed12 (1:16:19 AM): this is what i did with another christian frnd too. for all my courtesy he too turned out thsi way. ul can see our entie (entire) chat there
oleery1 (1:16:53 AM): this war against israel, is what will be the catalyst for Jesus coming and bring peace to the world, its all been prophecised, about and many prophecies are being fullfilled as we chat,
mansoormuhammed12 (1:17:45 AM): sure sure. thnks for letting me know
oleery1 (1:20:17 AM): ok 🙂
[That’s the end of this heartless conversation and these are the observations: –
1. All i wanted was a simple statement like “i condemn Israel’s actions” or “ its so sad what happened in Gaza” or “ i regret the deaths of so many people“. Is it so hard for one human to feel the loss of another human? Is it so difficult to mouth one statement of regret for the deaths of hundreds?
2. I have to fight for a statement of remorse from a person who is so bothered and worried about the fulfillment of some prophesy while hundreds die in Gaza. And what is the end of this crazy prophesy? Some “God” is coming to save the oppressor – Israel? Has even this “God” gone mad like the rest of us?
3. Do you Christians hate the Muslims so much that even the deaths of hundreds of us doesn’t warrant a simple feeling of remorse? And you call yourselves as the ambassadors of peace? This is a gross mockery of peace! I wonder what Jesus would have to say to this. Maybe he will applaud and give Israel and oleery1 a pat on the back.
4. If the coming of this “God” whom oleery1 talked about so eagerly comes really to “save” and “defend” the present day Israel then i am happy and proud to denounce that God. He is no God . He is a monster who cannot differentiate between the oppressor and the tyrant.]